I agree with Nolan Widmer that your definition is stretching the meaning of religion and does not apply to atheism. If, as you say, religion is a set of beliefs and practices, is it a religion if a doctor believes in the efficacy of vaccines and vaccinates people in her practice? If science is also a religion in your terms, both words lose meaning. Or, if we take your definition, how is atheism a set of beliefs and practices?
This is the key distinction. I'm going to channel "le reddit atheism" for a bit but the mysticism inherent to religion is the key distinction and in my view epistemically deleterious. So I see religion as harmful in the same way I think astrology is harmful. Not morally wrong (i.e. I don't think believing in a god makes you a bad person), but rather an epistemic failure that puts someone's belief system on shaky footing (e.g. a deeply religious person could have a "divine revelation" in a dream that completely shifts their beliefs). I'm not a fan of mysticism.
And no, I'm not arguing that atheists are inherently rational and oriented thinkers. But it's absolutely not "a type of religion."
I know I'm being pedantic but I disagree with that definition; I think you're really stretching the meaning of the word "religion" there. Religion is faith and worship; I think atheism is the exact lack of both of those things.
The interactions I have with my phone do feel like religious and ritualistic acts. The offering of focus/attention energy, the activation of spells— absorbed and manifested energy— through scrolls, and the connections made through the frequencies I interact with— as if communicating with others through the spiritual realms.
It makes me so happy when you put into words what many of us intuitively feel. It's like you analyse things that seem to have so much power over people due to their vagueness and they instantly lose that power. Bro is revealing the Big Other as farce 😂 Your logic is so clear and compelling that it nearly makes me switch my phone off. Your logic is also so clear and compelling that, of course, I will keep scrolling.
oh machine and the divine, we're really in it now. this is so fascinating! playing into the idea, I can almost think of different Internet niches/spaces as denominations of the greater web religion. and the environmental impact of AI & general tech equated to the way God is said to bring thunderstorms and floods. there's a lot of poetry you've inspired in me. great read as always, Adam!
Interesting read!! Just a thought though... I feel like the idea of a 'mythical reel pull' and 'the algorithm knows me' as well as 'target audience's etc can't be compared to religion because they rely on knowing (somewhat, at least) how it works. 'mythical reel pull' really just means what you're seeing is rare or entertaining in a way your algorithm usually isn't... It relies on the probability we understand the algorithm to use. When I say 'the algorithm knows me' I understand that it knows me precisely because I've liked a certain amount of videos that has taught it my taste... Not some mythical understanding of my being?? Idk, maybe I'm taking what you said too literally and missing the point
I thought the same and then I read the article linked in the text 'we simplify and personify it', and I realised we truly know as much about 'the algorithm' as we do about God, and we (hypothetically, for the non-religious) attribute about the same power to both.
I haven't read the article... But okay, 'same power' the algorithm can change people's lives, yes. And there's specific things you can do to attract it's attention, sure. But the difference is God is supposedly conscious, whereas most people know the algorithm is code. (Exceptions exist of course, there's crazy people out there). I feel like one of the main attractions of religion is feeling truly seen and understood in a way another human can't see you... And the algorithm could never do that? I don't know... I see the resemblance, but I think it's maybe an interesting comparison at best... You don't pray to the algorithm when you're life's awful. Maybe you'll post a video, escape on it for distraction... But how many people actually expect it to solve their problems?
> I feel like one of the main attractions of religion is feeling truly seen and understood in a way another human can't see you... And the algorithm could never do that?
I agree with you that the algorithm, as an entity, cannot truly commune with people in the way you describe. However, the companies that build these platforms and algorithms design them to learn more information about the users then they think they are making available. Their goal is to build up such a detailed profile of the user and intentionally select when to apply certain pieces of information from that profile that the user is left thinking "omg it knows me so well!"
These companies are intentionally trying to invoke in their users that feeling of being intimately connected with the "higher power" (read: the algorithm) which, much in the way a church or other religious gathering places operates, has the user wanting to come back for more (where, of course, the app can show them more ads as well as more content to feed the cycle).
Interesting.. I completely get what you're saying and honestly, it is a comparison more than anything; hypothesising is something the author does really well
Maybe it's less about what we know and more about how we behave despite it. You could argue that the general internet population does act as if 'the algorithm' can see and understand us like God would, otherwise we wouldn't create content, we would just return our focus to engaging with those around us in reality. I think it's a fascinating way for the author to frame our digital interactions regardless, and opens up a creative and critical way of thinking about the present - which is crucial nowadays imo.
Yeah you're right. I think it just makes me uncomfortable, but that's a good thing! Good food for thought as always... And good to be conscious of how we view the algorithm/social media platforms etc.
I wish I had the complete lack of ethics to serve as a social predator to thin the herd and profit handsomely off of all the gullible true believers in anthropomorphic computing.
Sadly, I know less ethical people will figure it out and not have these challenges. And not just Sam Altman.
The banner notification to this article interrupted my scroll worship time.
Good thing I’m an atheist
everybody engages in rituals and micro-religious actions, regardless of what your belief system is.
Exactly
Atheism in itself is a type of religion. A religion is a set of beliefs and practices, not necessarily about God or spirituality.
I agree with Nolan Widmer that your definition is stretching the meaning of religion and does not apply to atheism. If, as you say, religion is a set of beliefs and practices, is it a religion if a doctor believes in the efficacy of vaccines and vaccinates people in her practice? If science is also a religion in your terms, both words lose meaning. Or, if we take your definition, how is atheism a set of beliefs and practices?
This is the key distinction. I'm going to channel "le reddit atheism" for a bit but the mysticism inherent to religion is the key distinction and in my view epistemically deleterious. So I see religion as harmful in the same way I think astrology is harmful. Not morally wrong (i.e. I don't think believing in a god makes you a bad person), but rather an epistemic failure that puts someone's belief system on shaky footing (e.g. a deeply religious person could have a "divine revelation" in a dream that completely shifts their beliefs). I'm not a fan of mysticism.
And no, I'm not arguing that atheists are inherently rational and oriented thinkers. But it's absolutely not "a type of religion."
I know I'm being pedantic but I disagree with that definition; I think you're really stretching the meaning of the word "religion" there. Religion is faith and worship; I think atheism is the exact lack of both of those things.
everyone has faith in and worships something. for an atheist, it's probably not a god, though.
The interactions I have with my phone do feel like religious and ritualistic acts. The offering of focus/attention energy, the activation of spells— absorbed and manifested energy— through scrolls, and the connections made through the frequencies I interact with— as if communicating with others through the spiritual realms.
I didn’t even think of attention as a kind of religious offering!! incredible point
If you're interested there is a paper here that discusses attention and religion.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jssr.12956
It's like how Byung Chul Han compared scrolling on the screen to working through a rosary. Chilling comparison honestly.
“And the people bowed and prayed / to the neon god they made” - Simon and Garfunkel
It makes me so happy when you put into words what many of us intuitively feel. It's like you analyse things that seem to have so much power over people due to their vagueness and they instantly lose that power. Bro is revealing the Big Other as farce 😂 Your logic is so clear and compelling that it nearly makes me switch my phone off. Your logic is also so clear and compelling that, of course, I will keep scrolling.
I worship scrolling through your essays
oh machine and the divine, we're really in it now. this is so fascinating! playing into the idea, I can almost think of different Internet niches/spaces as denominations of the greater web religion. and the environmental impact of AI & general tech equated to the way God is said to bring thunderstorms and floods. there's a lot of poetry you've inspired in me. great read as always, Adam!
Interesting read!! Just a thought though... I feel like the idea of a 'mythical reel pull' and 'the algorithm knows me' as well as 'target audience's etc can't be compared to religion because they rely on knowing (somewhat, at least) how it works. 'mythical reel pull' really just means what you're seeing is rare or entertaining in a way your algorithm usually isn't... It relies on the probability we understand the algorithm to use. When I say 'the algorithm knows me' I understand that it knows me precisely because I've liked a certain amount of videos that has taught it my taste... Not some mythical understanding of my being?? Idk, maybe I'm taking what you said too literally and missing the point
I thought the same and then I read the article linked in the text 'we simplify and personify it', and I realised we truly know as much about 'the algorithm' as we do about God, and we (hypothetically, for the non-religious) attribute about the same power to both.
I haven't read the article... But okay, 'same power' the algorithm can change people's lives, yes. And there's specific things you can do to attract it's attention, sure. But the difference is God is supposedly conscious, whereas most people know the algorithm is code. (Exceptions exist of course, there's crazy people out there). I feel like one of the main attractions of religion is feeling truly seen and understood in a way another human can't see you... And the algorithm could never do that? I don't know... I see the resemblance, but I think it's maybe an interesting comparison at best... You don't pray to the algorithm when you're life's awful. Maybe you'll post a video, escape on it for distraction... But how many people actually expect it to solve their problems?
> I feel like one of the main attractions of religion is feeling truly seen and understood in a way another human can't see you... And the algorithm could never do that?
I agree with you that the algorithm, as an entity, cannot truly commune with people in the way you describe. However, the companies that build these platforms and algorithms design them to learn more information about the users then they think they are making available. Their goal is to build up such a detailed profile of the user and intentionally select when to apply certain pieces of information from that profile that the user is left thinking "omg it knows me so well!"
These companies are intentionally trying to invoke in their users that feeling of being intimately connected with the "higher power" (read: the algorithm) which, much in the way a church or other religious gathering places operates, has the user wanting to come back for more (where, of course, the app can show them more ads as well as more content to feed the cycle).
Interesting.. I completely get what you're saying and honestly, it is a comparison more than anything; hypothesising is something the author does really well
Maybe it's less about what we know and more about how we behave despite it. You could argue that the general internet population does act as if 'the algorithm' can see and understand us like God would, otherwise we wouldn't create content, we would just return our focus to engaging with those around us in reality. I think it's a fascinating way for the author to frame our digital interactions regardless, and opens up a creative and critical way of thinking about the present - which is crucial nowadays imo.
Yeah you're right. I think it just makes me uncomfortable, but that's a good thing! Good food for thought as always... And good to be conscious of how we view the algorithm/social media platforms etc.
Adam, can you please talk about AI creating its own language out of WiFi signals and frequencies that aren’t being used by human ranges?
Where can I read more about this?
Reminds me of a song:
"We venerate and genuflect to our God, our fixation..."
- Puscifer, The Algorithm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zlsCLukG9A
I wish I had the complete lack of ethics to serve as a social predator to thin the herd and profit handsomely off of all the gullible true believers in anthropomorphic computing.
Sadly, I know less ethical people will figure it out and not have these challenges. And not just Sam Altman.
what a coincidence, i stopped my daily dose of doomscrollong to open my notifs for this post before knowing what it was about
ive been wanting to write an essay about this for so long but you were really able to put my thoughts into such clear ideas <3
Pretty epic take. Back to scrolling 😂